Monday, January 9, 2012

Citizen Comments During Council Meetings, 2012 edition

At this Saturday's work session/Special Council Meeting, the 2012 Rules of Council were passed. Included in the Rules of Council are the Rules for Citizen Comments:

Citizen Comments During Council Meetings
Council meetings are public business meetings of the Minerva Park Council. As such, all
citizen comments must be orderly, civil, and courteous and pertain to current issues and
topics of business before council.

Citizens wishing to address council at a Council Meeting must sign in and complete
a Citizen Comments Card before the meeting begins. The Citizen Comments Card
includes the name and address of the citizen and what specific topic/committee report
the citizen wishes to address. The citizen then gives the President of Council the card
before the meeting begins. Throughout the meeting, when the appropriate topic comes
up in the agenda (guest speaker, individual report or committee report), the citizen will
be recognized by the Mayor. The citizen then has three minutes to address the council
on a topic that relates directly to that committee or topic at hand. At the discretion of the
Mayor there can be discussion surrounding the topic. However, realizing that the council
meeting is an orderly business meeting, the discussion should always directly pertain to
the business at hand.
If it appears that the topic is not specific to the business before council or the committee,
the citizen will not be recognized until the end of the meeting at a general Citizen
Comments time. Any citizen speaking at that time will have a maximum of three minutes
to address council. No citizen will have more than nine minutes at any council meeting.
As always, citizens are encouraged to make an appointment to speak with the Mayor or
any member of Council about general issues of the Village.

In addition to the Citizen Comments Card, the Mayor or President of Council may
recognize any nonmember of council for the purpose of asking a brief question that
clarifies for the citizen the topic before council.

Any group of four or more, or a delegation of four or more, wishing to appear before
council should direct a letter to the Fiscal Officer and a copy to the Mayor in such time
that it will be received no later than 72 hours before a council meeting. At that time
council members shall also be notified by the Mayor or Fiscal Officer. It is clear that
this rule is not intended for an individual, or groups of two or three individuals, but
larger groups that wish to address an issue at a council meeting. The purpose of this is
to give council ample time to research and consider the problem to be presented and
discussed at the next meeting. Such a group shall choose a spokesperson to initially
present the issue to council and then other members of the group may be recognized to
give comments directly related to the issue when the group has been recognized to speak
on the committee topic.

At all times, speakers must be civil, courteous, avoid discussion of personalities, and
address issues before council. Specifically:
a. Citizen Comments at each meeting must be related to specific topics of the meeting
b. Citizen Comments not related to specific topics of the meeting can be presented if
the Mayor or President of Council has given approval before the work session the
Saturday before the Monday evening council meeting.
c. Citizen Comments are intended to present new information or opinions to the
council; comments that have previously and repeatedly been made are not
appropriate as council has already been informed of the citizen’s opinions.
d. Shouting or speaking loudly is not consistent with an orderly business meeting and
will not be tolerated.
e. Profanity and anger expressed in Citizen Comments is not consistent with an orderly
business meeting and will not be tolerated
f. Statements that stray from the topic at hand and single out individuals to criticize,
condemn, complain about, or belittle are not consistent with an orderly business
meeting and will not be tolerated
g. Citizens that repeatedly violate the guidelines for Citizen Comments will not be
recognized at future meetings

If at any meeting, any person becomes belligerent, discourteous, undertakes a discussion
of personalities, or strays from the topics before council, the Mayor or president pro
tempore of council may request that he/she return to the topic at hand and speak with
courtesy. If the person refuses, the Mayor or president pro tempore of council can ask
that the person surrender the floor and /or leave the meeting. If the person refuses, the
Mayor or president pro tempore of council can ask the Police Officer (if one is present)
to escort the person out of the room. The person can return when the Police Officer
determines appropriate. However, if the same actions continue, the person shall be
expelled permanently from that meeting.

As discussed in this previous post, we have previously had a clause for citizen comments; though now the rules and limitations seems to have doubled in print. I understand the need for order and direction during public meetings, and do value that these rules give respect to the length of the meetings; however I see this as another limiting agent our council is using to quiet dissenting opinion.

A few things that stick out to me are the following: 

  • Comments not related to specific topics of the meeting can be presented if the Mayor or President of Council has given approval before the work session the Saturday before the Monday evening council meeting.  
A purpose of this would be to give council the time to review the topic and have useful feedback for the citizen's topic, however this leaves hearing the topic up to the discretion of the council president and mayor. Another limiting factor in what can be presented to both council and citizens present at the meeting. Not to mention the time factor in it, in the event a topic comes to mind after this time is up, it theoretically must wait until the following month's meeting to be presented in public. 


  • comments that have previously and repeatedly been made are not appropriate as council has already been informed of the citizen’s opinions.
True, Council may already be informed of the citizen's opinions, but residents who infrequently attend may not be aware of grievances with council's actions; and new ideas or problems pertaining to the same topic or discussion could be suppressed with this rule.

This rule itself seems to spell out that council is aware of the citizen's opinions but doesn't care to hear them anymore, as they are obviously being left open to be brought up again by the citizen at more than one meeting. Issues are not being resolved that citizen(s) care about for this to be a necessary rule.

  • Profanity and anger expressed in Citizen Comments is not consistent with an orderly business meeting and will not be tolerated
I completely agree with the part about profanity. However to require that speakers not express anger with any topic they wish to address is slightly unreasonable. No one is going to consistently agree with everything and not be angry about something. To ask that citizens not express emotion is quite constraining. As such, if council asks that of citizens, they should ask the same of council. There have been many meetings where certain members of council or Minerva Park administration have expressed anger through shouting, name calling, and wailing. That is not consistent with an orderly business meeting more so than that of citizens acting as such. Council and Village officials have a duty to be professional in holding their positions.


  • Citizens that repeatedly violate the guidelines for Citizen Comments will not be recognized at future meetings 
Having attended several Council meetings I see this rule written for one dissenting (though quite valuable) citizen in particular. So, if council or our mayor repeatedly violate the rules, law, or civil rights of citizens or employees, are they going to be removed from their office or not recognized, by way of council or citizens? Obviously not, because that would have likely happened already.

I understand the necessity for regulations on public meetings, as said before, and I value the interest in the safety of the public in that council doesn't want dissent to grow to the point of violence or threats, but these rules are a little extreme for our village of 1,272. We usually have less than 15 residents at any given council meeting, and of those typically 3 at most speak as citizens, outside the capacity of working within the village, so I see this growth in rules as a way to suppress those few who do speak their minds and happen to disagree with the way things are being done. If they stood to praise council, I have a feeling their rules would be much more lenient.

Perhaps the time spent writing, deliberating, and enforcing these rules could have better served trying to eliminate some of the need for them. Though there will always be disagreements in policies and practices.

11 comments:

  1. The 2012 Rules of Council concerning citizen comments are not that different from what Columbus and the surrounding municipalities have adopted.

    I do not see why anyone should feel that the rules will hamper a citizen's ability to speak at a council meeting as long as they remain courteous and respectful.

    I encourage more residents to attend Council meetings and let Council know what their concers are, good or bad, about our Village and it's government. There is by far to much appathy of our residents when it comes to attending Council meetings.

    Charles Legg

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  2. Of course you would say that Charles! Remember what YOU said the people have spoke ! They did not want you that is why you came in last place.
    Maybe you dont remember! Like you running a bus. out of your house! So be quiet!!

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  3. Whaaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaa!!! If you people that show up in council meetings would actually have solutions instead of complete BITCHING and griping then maybe there would need to be so many rules to keep you crybabies at bay! Now who needs to stand in the corner?!

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  4. The previous post (hyperlinked above) from February 2011 compares our last years' rules for citizen comments to those of neighboring municipalities, including their population values. Most of those municipalities have a much larger number of residents to hear concerns from.

    The apathy within the village cannot be denied, it is a big problem I see. There were only four residents who showed up to the meeting last night; myself, Mr. Benedetti, another woman, and Senator Bacon (who was there on business).

    However, while showing up to meetings regularly would certinly indicate interest from residents, there are a number of residents who remain interested (or outraged) but don't show up to the meetings. This may be because of scheduling conflicts, or it could be due to the attitude of the room. I personally know of residents who don't come to the meetings because of the stress level, they don't feel welcome, and part of the reason why they don't is the rules like this that constrain residents' ability to be seen as an asset to these meetings.

    With 1,272 residents and only few showing up at meetings, it is obvious these rules are pointed at at least one individual. The one individual who comes to address his concerns with procedures of our council, whom "we" chose to serve "us".

    I do hope that Mr. Benedetti's approach of addressing council in writing with his concerns is more productive than his previous attempts to be answered by Minerva Park Council. The lack of response or closure he gets from council has been what has led to council desiring rules to not allow him to bring up issues they don't want to answer.

    Residents don't need more rules constraining the concerns of Mr. Benedetti or others, we need answers to the questions that no one wants to answer.

    -Jessica Rhoads

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  5. Council and that piece of work called the Mayor is using these rules so they dont have to answerer questions! They do not want any solutions. They think everything is fine. Well if you think all the law suits are fine then i have to wonder what is wrong with people.
    Jessica Rhoads should be on council she has more vision then all of them sitting up there making faces at other members of council.
    That includes that so called Mayor.
    The message 2 up I believe it is our Code enforcer. I have seen him at 2 meetings and that is the way he talks to people. He is full of himself and does not know the code. All he does is what the Mayor tells him to do. No brain of his own.

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  6. Why all the bickering ? I was under the impression that the Mayor was doing such a great job, and that's why she was re-elected. Sounds to me as if nothing has changed, here it is 01/11/2012 and the saga continues. Funny , I honestly believe the residents of the fine Village of Minerva Park have no clue what is going on, or else they just don't give a damm any more. I personally think until the residents start speaking up, thinks won't change. Why don't some of you people climb on board and take the first step by going door to door and see who knows what. I don't understand
    how any resident could even complain if they wanted to. I mean you only get 3 minutes to speak. You, the residents, should be able to compain to someone, I'm sure the mayor has to answer to someone. Thats why you only get 3 minutes to talk, they are afraid of what you might bring up. Hey to the dum-a-- above, the residents are not their to give solutions, they want there 3 minutes of fame so hopefully the council can come up with a solution to the problem. Just think people another 4 years of this crap. You were warned, between the mayor, the chief of police who should never even put her foot in a cruiser(shoddy at best) liar an dishonest proven more than once and a council that plays by the puppett strings, just depends on who is pulling the strings at anyone given Monday. Good Luck

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  7. This is a test of the emergency blogging network

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  8. ???????????????????????????????????????? not quite sure how I should reply to this.

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  9. Does this mean that the Village is in a state of emergency? If you go back to the blogs from Oct. and November, you will see that the residents were being warned about the mayor and the chief. You were all asked to do your homework. Some of you did, and others didn't, or the village would not be in the mess that it it in. I did sit in on Officer Gross hearing, and it was nothing more than a circus, and I believe in Dec blog's or maybe even this month, his rights were violated not once, not twice, but several. The mayor should never have been re-elected. Still do not understand as to why she would hire a woman for police chief, that had an out-standing lawsuit in Sandusky for lying. It makes no sense to me. The mayor didn't do her homework either. Take the time and read the links of the hearing and the appeal, it's right there in black and white for all to read. As for as Mr. Benedetti is concerned, I think he gets it. You all seem to make fun of him, but I sit back and all he's doing to trying to get the answers that he can't seem to get in the council meetings. I totally agree with Jessica, I do believe that you should have gotten the seat on the council. Just goes to show to show you how wrong the Mayor was. She needed to put some one in the seat that she could control. I'm not sure who posted the blog about the puppet strings, but she new Charles would go along with the program, but she also knew that she couldn't get you (Jessica) to go along with the puppet strings. You seem to be a very strong person, with opinions that need to be brought out. What it is going to take is the residents. I can promise you 80% of them have no idea what is going on. They are told what the mayor wants them to hear. They have no idea about the lawsuits. Even if they go to the monthly meetings, it is never brought up, except behind closed door. All i can say for all who reads this, silly blog that no one reads or cares about ( remark made from the new LT of the police dept.) you need to start going to the meeting the second Monday of each month for those of you that are not aware, speak up, ask questions cause the village is in a state of emergency.

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  10. Thanks for the kind word. The best is yet to come, stay tuned!

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