This June officer Jason Gross was terminated from the Minerva Park Police Department. Due to the circumstances surrounding his termination, he filed an appeal with the Village, the hearing of which took place in September.
There were several issues with both the manner in which this hearing was conducted and things stated during the hearing. As such, Jason Gross has filed further legal action against the Village Council and the Mayor, the next step in receiving the justice he hopes for. And in my opinion rightfully deserves.
Details on these cases can be found at the Franklin County Court of Common Pleas Website, here:
http://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/CaseInformationOnline/caseSearch?s3TBWdZuWU57SDnV9U1x
http://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/CaseInformationOnline/caseSearch?k6Mb3zMJGEHCVkVyNpNx
Because of the length of these hearings, I have been unable to quickly summarize the proceedings and issues I found with the case, and I fear if I wait for the time to get this well organized too much time will pass. In fact, I wish I would have resorted to this format before the election, because perhaps there would have been some eye-opening as to how our mayor's system is currently running. I digress...
Below are links to the raw notes taken during these meetings. I will leave it to you to read through them and come to any conclusions you see in them, but I would like to highlight some points quickly.
Lynn Eisentrout presided over the hearing, a hearing appealing a decision made by her. Jason Gross's legal representation pointed out in the meeting how this was a conflict of interest and someone other than the mayor should have presided over the hearing; the President of Council being a more suitable choice in this situation. Lynn continued to preside over the hearing, regardless.
Because of officer Gross's request for a public hearing, council was prohibited from going into executive session. They did so anyway, in an executive session from 7:15pm to 8:59pm.
Unlike the rest of the witnesses, Lynn Eisentrout was allowed to hear others' testimony (accordingly, as she was presiding over the hearing) but then gave her testimony. I encourage you to read her testimony notes verbatim, I wouldn't want to misquote, but I recall a lot of "I don't recall" and a few times hearing an answer relative to "you heard what she said". Please, find it in the notes from the first night and tell us what you think.
Matthew Fenstermaker credited Jason as "one of the best officers I've seen"
He also stated that "police are allowed to lie to get what they need" "deception is used" in respect to his using recording and not specifying that there was an ongoing investigation when collecting details in the investigation. (Matthew Fenstermaker was promoted soon after the hearing took place, though the FOP was unhappy with a member representing police officers this way.)
Reprimands that Matthew Fenstermaker was directed to shred were not present in Jason Gross's employee file at the time of his firing (requested by a 3rd party by public records request) but the documents reappeared to be used in the case against him (reprimands 8, 9, and 10).
There are many, many more issues and inconsistencies but I have not collected all the notes and double checked the details. In the mean time, here they are, for everyone to see. I am not surprised at all the Minerva Park hasn't "fixed" the problems they started when they fired Jason Gross. His rights were violated more than once, first before he was fired, in the manner in which he was fired, in the way his hearing was conducted, and the way he was reinstated. This isn't the kind of thing our police department deserves, regardless of anyone's understanding (or more likely misunderstanding) of a General Order.
Personal notes from the Jason Gross Appeal Hearing dated 9/21/11
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76101762/Jason-Gross-Hearing
Personal notes from the Jason Gross Appeal Hearing Continuance dated 9/26/11
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76104364/Jason-Gross-Appeal-Closing#
I would invite the author of this entry to interview anyone who has training and experience in conducting internal and criminal investigations. Also to do research in case law. That person will see the use of deception by the police in obtaining information has been already looked at by the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT and ACCEPTED AS AN APPROVED METHOD OF CONDUCTING INVESTIGATIONS. Also, that person should contact the FOP and ask them whether Lt. Fenstermaker did anything illegal...I am quite sure they will say he did nothing of the kind because the FOP President was just spouting off for the crowd to draw support for Gross. Get the facts straight before accusing an officer of not doing his job within the parameters of the law!!
ReplyDeleteJason Gross is not a criminal, he was (and remains) a roadblock in someone's agenda. He has done nothing wrong. That's the difference, Matt. Using deception to investigate one of the best officer you've seen (your quote) for the reasons that you did, that's why people question your character.
ReplyDeleteTake a hard look at yourself. As soon as you allow yourself to be a pawn, you compromise your integrity. Stand up for what you believe in, God will take care of the rest.
Matt, you don't use deceptive techniques against other police officers. I understand resorting to something like that to catch a child rapist, but not a police officer whom you know the Mayor has a personal vendetta against. They are using you as a pawn to get what they want and the mayor and chief have turned Minerva Park into the laughing stock of Central Ohio. The FOP is in the process of removing you as a member due to your unprofessional and immoral (although not illegal), actions. No cop does that to another cop unless the cop under investigation was out committing felonies. Officer Gross was enforcing traffic laws to protect the citizens of Minerva Park.
ReplyDeleteMatt, everyone knows that you are doing whatever it takes to keep your job. Nobody there wants to lose their job because of some idiot man hater's political agenda. You just don't screw over other cops you work with in the process. One of these days, you are going to need help, and there won't be anyone there for you. You don't sacrifice your integrity and your friends over a job. If it is that bad where you feel like you need to do that in order to keep your job, then it's probably not a job worth having.
Unprofessional and immoral actions are subjective opinions made by the FOP President. Who most likely has never done an internal affairs investigation in his career, or even has had the training to do them and understand that when you are doing an investigation and dealing with people who will 'cover and lie' for one another, using deception is usually the only way to get the real story. And as far as it goes for the job comment, people seem to forget that maybe Fenstermaker was just following orders. He was doing his job. In the end, will your friends and what you call 'integrity' pay the bills for you?
ReplyDeleteI invite the author of the first anonymous comment to review this post. I never stated Lieutenant Fenstermaker did anything illegal. Nor that the FOP did, simply that the representatives of the FOP present at the hearing were not impressed with the way Lt. Fenstermaker conducted himself. I never directly accused him of not doing his job within the parameters of the law, you extracted that from my writing and likely because there is room for questioning in his actions. There are at least moral questions to be asked, even if everything he did was lawful. And to have the chief promote him immediately following this...?
ReplyDeleteAgain, I encourage everyone to read through the notes from the meeting to come to any conclusions they wish from it, the proceedings speak for themselves.
To the last comment, I completely agree. Your original post was citing facts based on the notes from the proceedings To Lt. Fenstermaker's last comment that he posted as "anonymous," You have friends that love you and would help you in a second. The FOP would have stood up for you and you would have gotten your job back and received a settlement from the Village had they fired you for no reason like they are trying to do to everyone else. You and I both know that not all cops will "cover and lie" for each other. No cop that I know of would ever put up with working with a "dirty" cop and would turn them in if they ever found them doing something like that. You don't resort to "deceptive techniques" with your friends.
ReplyDeleteThe simple fact of the matter is that Officer Gross chose not to obey direct orders. Anyone with military experience will tell you that this is paramount to any command and control organization, to which all military branches, law enforement agencies, and fire and rescue agencies belong to. Considering that they all have to deal with emergency conditions,this is a must. Anyone with authority in these type of organizations simply can not allow anyone to ignore direct orders. Doing so will lead to the crumbling of the command and control structure to which these organizations need in order to deal with emergencies.
ReplyDeleteDid you not read the websites, or all 30 pages
ReplyDeleteof the report. Everyone has an opinion, Lots of luck with yours.
First, we are not at war in Minerva Park. We are not in the military. We are public servants. Your precious command and control will not crumble because one officer made a responsible decision to make a lawful traffic stop.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, you have embarrassed yourself (and the Village) enough. You are not an effective supervisor, you are a poor policeman and your conduct has shown you are even less of a man.
I think all of you just need to grow up a little bit and just do as you are told!! It seems to me that many of you are just a bunch of whiney little kids that can't adjust to change. GET OVER IT!!!
ReplyDeleteI don't feel that I should have to justify anything to any former officers on here who think what I did was not in the best interest of the department, or my career. I will not apologize for doing my job in this investigation. I did everything within the limits of the law. If the FOP thinks I did something wrong and wishes to bring forth accusations of such in an open forum, I welcome it! For those on here who wish to bad mouth me, I would also like to welcome you to bring forth these same accusations in an official complaint instead of trash talking in an open forum without proof. I can show that I did my job as I was trained and ordered to do. I knew that by following orders I was not going to make friends, but that's what being a professional is all about. For those people who claimed to be my friends and now are on here trash talking me, it is a shame that you can't understand that I was just doing what I was told to do.
ReplyDeleteDid you not read my note well? I never said that we were at war. I never said that we were a military unit. I did, however, mean that as a law enforcement agency, the Minerva Park Police Department, by its very nature, has a command and control structure.
ReplyDeleteYes, one officer disobeying a direct order, intent not withstanding, can put his or her self, and the public in danger. One officer disobeying a direct order can also put the entire police agency and village at risk.
No, I am not a supervisor nor am I a police officer. But, I am a man and as such I will not resort to belittling and demeaning others simply because I disagree with them.
And yes I have read the entire report.
And one officer can save a person's life
ReplyDeleteDo your job to the best of your ability. Follow the law and have a moral conduct. In the end you have to do what helps you sleep at night peacefully. When you announce that "its ok for police officers to lie" and stop talking to all your "friends" in anticipation of your actions,I don't imagine you are going to be at peace. And you have no one else's reflection to see in the mirror but your own.... I would avoid all places with mirrors Matt. You certainly don't represent the police officer I teach my kids to look to for safety.
ReplyDeletePeople are taking the "it's ok for police officers to lie" comment out of context. It's perfectly LEGAL for a police officer to use deception while conducting an investigation when dealing with witnesses or suspects who will in turn lie to cover for one another. Look at the evidence and you will see that this tactic was used here with at least two people who were covering for Officer Gross.
ReplyDeleteWho covered for officer Gross? Who lied? What evidence? I was there for the whole court case....evidence. I saw a video that showed why officer Gross pulled over the driver.....who ran into a curb and was weaving all over the road. I saw a police chief who said there was no traffic violation committed. I saw fenstermaker say Officer Gross was one of the best officers he knows.......what evidence? Stay away from mirrors! Liar,Liar.....doesn't apply to Officer Gross. I wouldn't ask the current chief to define a lie vs deception either...
ReplyDeleteEither Officer Gross is a Great officer or u wanted him fired. Problem is you sit on a fence and chose the wrong ass to kiss Matt....now you look like the.rest of them,an ASS. Wear your title appropriately and quit asking for pity from the rest who see you as the coward you have shown yourself to be.
ReplyDeleteAnd again,while it might be Legal,you obviously lack a moral compass. Problem with Minerva Park Police Department is there is no moral compass. What happened to a brotherhood? Doing the right thing....how about you get a chief who doesn't screw with people's lives bc of her own competencies? How about one who knows the law? How about a chief who puts policies in writing? Instead of.expecting her word to be gold. I think her appeal has sealed the deal about her worth as a person altogether. Officer Gross was doing the right thing,the safe thing. Nice to know that the chief/mayor/fenstermaker would sit back and watch an accident happen bc of someone's words for the moment instead of doing what is right....glad my children don't wander amongst your streets.
ReplyDeleteTo the person five posts up (Dec 22, 304PM) I wander if you are in fact in Law Enforcement? If you aren't you should honestly shut your mouth because you don't know the first thing about it. If you are then you pretty well that what you just said is as wrong as wrong can be. This is a difficult job or anyone would do it. It is also a brotherhood that comes with making difficult decisions. Yes, sometimes supervisors are asked to do things they would rather not. But what is the alternative? Disobey direct orders and face and insubordination charge or derelection of duty? If you (the person who posted that comment) think you can do a better job than what Matt did than why don't you get in the game and fix it instead of sitting on the sidelines. If you happen to be a former officer that left then your a quitter who obviously couldn't handle the change rather than stay and make your best attempts at making things better. If your so great than go be a chief somewhere and we'll see how you handle yourself in situations such as this.
ReplyDeleteI'm on the otherside. I get the accidents that happen b/c someone would rather "obey" orders that are loosely/conveniently placed and someone dies or is injured from their choice. Officer Gross could've prevented that from occurring on the rainy day where someone was weaving all over the road/hitting curbs. There was no written policy in regards to the situation, no orders broken, only an accident prevented from occurring and someone with a "powertrip" attempting to show themselves as exactly that. How many police officers have been reprimanded for saving a life before? We have the Good Sumaritan law for just that but you think that he should be fired b/c of a chief who can't see? Who cares more about power than safety? Who is a liar....and a convicted one at that....hoping you're not an officer yourself b/c you obviously don't care about safety either. And the officers that have left Minerva Park aren't quitters, they recognize a safety issue and know when it's time to get out. I'm assuming people don't just become police officers to wear a uniform? And who in the world wants to work for a chief who doesn't know the law, doesn't want to put policies in writing and is a liar? And we won't even start on the mayor!
ReplyDeleteNo one is going to fix "the game" of Minerva Park Police Department while you have Eisentrout as the end all be all, Neusse as the chief, and Fenstermaker as the leaders! Everyone else sees this, why can't you! You can't fix broken!
ReplyDeleteSure you can. Ask for all of their resignatiions and start fresh. That's the only way to fix what is broken. Make sure the residents are aware of what is going on. I can guarante that at least 75% to 80% have no clue what has been going on, because of the deciet and lies that have been going on for sounds like years according to these blogs. Nuesse has had problems staring back in early 2008 if I remember correctly, And someone replied that it was the old chiefs fault that all this problems came from, so why did the mayor not step in if the police dept was in such a mess.Not even sure abot that new Lt. sounds like he is a little puppet and the strings are being pulled by the mayor and chief. Lots of luck people, I do have to agree, the officiers who left were not quiters, it's always been about safety. Had Officer Gross not stopped that car (which I did see the tape at the hearing) it could have caused a serious accident and maybe killed someone. I personally am glad to hear that there is an officer that is willing to make a snap decision.
ReplyDeleteCongrats to Officer Gross. Sounds like MP has alot of work ahead of them, good luck to the residents and to Officer Gross. Thanks
There was nothing wrong with the former Chief and the way he ran the department. He was a Minerva Park police officer for over 30 years and a damn good chief. The mayor didn't like him because he stood up to her when she tried to run the department as if she were the Chief. People are bashing the former Chief for absolutely no reason. Bobbie Hillard is a good Chief and great guy. Anyone that is bashing him lacks the integrity to be a police officer which would explain why they are working for Minerva Park. There are still a couple good officers left and Officer Gross is one of them!! Most of the officers that left did so because they had too much integrity and respect to work for a department that is being run by this chief and this mayor.
ReplyDeleteI've read all of these posts and I'm somewhat confused. What were you investigating, Matt? Was it a criminal investigation? I don't think anyone (above) is saying you broke the law. I think what they are saying is that you chose to use a tactic that is generally used to catch criminals. You were told to investigate, not to use deception. You chose to use deception to investigate a lawful traffic stop. I've seen the video and I've heard the testimony. Jason did nothing wrong.
ReplyDeleteI'm proud of my brother. He is a smart police officer and a good man. You were not just doing your job, you went above and beyond what was necessary. It's obvious to everyone but you that you're doing someone elses dirty work. I have to say that I'm embarrassed to have once called you my friend.
It was never denied that Jason Gross was a good officer. He was in fact labeled under oath by Fenstermaker as "one of the best officers I've ever seen". What was at issue was the fact that he disobeyed orders, not once, but several times. Those orders were issued in writing and were understood. He may be a good police officer, but by not following orders is part of the job too. Even though you may not agree with what your superiors tell you to do, if it's told to you by the Chief of Police IN WRITING, you better believe it was researched and is legal!!
ReplyDeleteSo where was this written order? Where was the policy? Where were the several times officer gross disobeyed orders? ..I mean even the village counsel recognized someone screwed up when they fired officer gross. And this chief of police is an idiot who doesn't even know her own policies. Perhaps she should research pre-disciplinary hearing, or that its not legal to weave in and out of traffic over the center line,or perhaps research the meaning of honesty/professionalism. She didn't even have the decency to serve Jason with his own termination papers! Yet again,you can't go wrong with safety. Officer Gross had the legal authority to stop the car. All the other supposed charges of insubordination were disproved in the hearing. When the appeal goes through and is heard in a real court,with a real judge,his record will be cleared. The police department/mayor don't want officer gross around bc he questions things when they aren't right. He didn't become an officer just to wear a uniform and for a power trip.....and nothing warrants a 3 week unpaid suspension!!! So someone needs to research legality and understanding bc you have a poor understanding of this situation.
ReplyDeleteHer management style was one of half truths and outright lies to serve her purpose!!! Nuesse just lost her appeal. Bye Bye Kimmee!!Party is this week in Erie County!! Sorry Minerva Park, but we are just thrilled that she is no longer around here.
ReplyDeleteNow I'm confused. If I am reading this correctly, Officer Gross, was terminated, rehired, and then suspended for 3 weeks unpaid after he was rehired. Why? If he wasn't working,because of termination, then how could he have done anything to deserve suspension. Please explain.
ReplyDeleteThat would be correct. He was fired and in the same week placed on "paid leave" subject to whatever. Then the appeal hearing occurred where the council members/mayor decided to "rehire" him and place him on 3 weeks unpaid suspension as his punishment for "disobeying" orders. Basically he was double punished for something he did which he had the authority to do regardless of what the convicted chief states. I can't recall a time when I know of anyone serving 3 weeks unpaid suspension, rediculous!! However, Nuesse will understand "tight" funds as she was just ordered to pay the court costs of her appeal in Sandusky. Hopefully she has a good financial advisor cause I'm sure it's not cheap being a liar!!!
ReplyDeleteI wonder how the residets who are taxpayers feel about a part time department. Why have a police department without full time officers? I certainly see the financial benefits for the chief/mayor. You don't have to pay holiday pay/premium pay, no full time benefits paid...but how does this benefit the residents? Has anyone bothered to look into the number of officers/part time officers? Who is there to check how she does things? Who checks the training of all these part timers? Does anyone care about safety? Someone is going to have to get hurt, or something horrible will have to happen in MP for people to pay attention. Meanwhile the residents are lead to believe they are safe when they soon will become a department with no experienced officers. What do the residents think of Nuesse's being convicted in Sandusky? Do you have any regrets of having her in MP? Why not make change with that when all she has brought with her is problems and negativity!!! The mayor is the only one who had problems with how the police dept was in the past b/c she couldn't micromanage them.
ReplyDeleteHow could anyone hire a chief that was fired for being a liar? Look at her record in Sandusky. Not the lies on the Minerva Park web site!!! What was anyone thinking when they hired a liar!
ReplyDeletekey problem here was the mayor hired her.....hmm, anyone else see that the mayor is the idiot? How could the mayor hire for a police position when I highly doubt the mayor knows what it takes to run a police department! Sad situation in Minerva Park.
ReplyDeleteThey should of hired a new full time officer instead of giving the chief a $5000 raise.
ReplyDeleteThey should have given her a raise right out the front door, with a police officers boot.
ReplyDeleteThe celebration party for kicking Kim's butt again is this Wednesday at All Ways Pizza in Sandusky. That was a favorite spot of Kim's. I am glad she is going to the supreme court. We can have another party when she loses again!!!! She should be use to it by now. Every judge that has heard her case has confirmed her termination for lying. Remember what the judge said, her management style was one of half truths and outright lies to serve her purpose.
ReplyDeleteI noticed Fenstermaker and Chief Nuesse who both have commented on here under "anonymous" have nothing else to say since everyone started commenting on her losing her case. Apparently that's not a hot topic she's eager to talk about. Nice to know she wants to point fingers but doesn't want to look in the mirror. Fenstermaker has nothing else to say b/c he chose the wrong side and looks like an idiot!
ReplyDeleteParty last night was a great time. We had a great crowd, but we did not go to Kim's old spot. Did not want to support any friend of Kim's. We had a blast!! Can't wait to the supreme court rules against her. Party time again.
ReplyDeleteOrders are supposed to be followed, I agree. However, we also have a duty and responsibility to challenge an order, if by following it we allow or create a risk to the public. Most departments have a Mission Statement. Mission Statements talk about preserving life and property, among other things. I think that important concept is forgotten when officers are ordered not to immediately stop a driver who is suspected of being under the influence. Legal order? Maybe. Researched? I don’t think so. Officers receive training on how to patrol and detect impaired drivers. We all agree that Jason IS a good officer so let him do what he was trained to do and stop hassling him. As for the other orders you’re referring to…a court of law will weigh on those issues soon enough. But I have a feeling that his suspension will be overturned and he will be back to catching bad guys without having to worry about losing his job. I won’t make any comments about the chief’s appeal in Sandusky until it has been completely resolved. That would be unfair of me to judge her based on what others say, right?
ReplyDeleteIt is my understanding that one of the interviews/conversations Officer Fenstermaker attempted to secretly record was with a local director for MADD. Based on what some supporters of the "police are allowed to lie to get what they need" when dealing with witnesses or suspects who will in turn lie to cover for one another state, it makes it sound like Officer Fenstermaker must have felt the local director for MADD is someone that would have done something like lie to cover.
ReplyDeleteIt can be understandable for deceptive and covert tactics to be used when performing a criminal investigation, and I have yet to see a US Supreme Court decision involving a case that is not criminal in nature where that was upheld.
Regardless, it seems the statement "police are allowed to lie to get what they need" is a poor explanation at best to justify the use of deceptive and covert tactics, particularly since it did not appear to be a criminal investigation of Officer Gross. I personally would find it hard to have much trust in Fenstermaker as a person much less as a police officer.
Even more interesting, at the hearing for Officer Gross, under oath Officer Fenstermaker basically testified that him secretly recording his interviews and conversations with 'witnesses' was a collaboration between himself and Chief Nuesse. Under oath Chief Nuesse testified she had no prior knowledge of him secretly recording his interviews and conversations with 'witnesses'.
At the Civil Service hearing for Nuesse being fired by the City of Sandusky, Nuesse testified under oath that she did not order any secret tape recordings of conversations. This type of order from her was contradicted under oath by both Assistant Chief Sams and Lt. Hofacker. While it is maybe not a factor that was part of the original reasons as to why Nuesse was fired, it seems awful disturbing that it now seems there are now two instances of Nuesse making such a claim under oath and now three officers providing testimony under oath which contradicts her testimony. Not hard to see why it seems Nuesse was fired for failure to uphold standards of honesty and failure to display absolute honesty, as well as her management style being labeled as based upon the telling of partial truths and outright lies to suit her own purposes.
You are 100 percent correct. All the judges that heard and reviewed her case, held that she lied!!!Just look at the Minerva Park web site, It is full of half truths and outright lies.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I haven't made any comments on here for the past few days was because I was just tired of reading opinions from people who have no courage to list their names to their words. People can say what they want on here, but at least have the courage to put your name to your words like Mike Gross has at least had the courage to do.
ReplyDeletePeople do not put their names on here for fear of retaliation. You are in her hip pocket, the rest of us are not. But the facts are what they are. She was fired for lying in Sandusky and now your testimony conflicts with hers. Who is lying?
ReplyDeleteI'm quit sure there were many comments on here you won't own Matt and should be advised not to. I'll be more than willing to own mine when all is said and done. I also think you are the last person who should speak about courage. I was the one served with my husbands termination papers while you stood behind your chief and acted as though you didn't even know you were standing on our property. Afterall I did your taxes this year,listened as you talked about your life,and then was defriended from you only weeks previous as you prepped to fire him. I would be more than happy to express my opinions to you Matt,but I would think you could only imagine how I feel. I hope your "promotion" has been worth it all.... Vickie gross
ReplyDeleteMatt, answer the question. She was fired for lying in Sandusky and now your testimony conflicts with hers. Who is lying? I want to hear your answer, or do we have to wait till she tells you what to say?
ReplyDeleteWell he probably has to wait to be told what he is "allowed" to say. Birds of a feather,flock together. Afterall, she promoted him not bc he was doing such a great job,but bc he was doing what she wanted him to be doing......from one liar to another. Don't worry though, Matt justifies it to himself by his own statement of "it's ok for police officers to lie."
ReplyDeleteNot sure why anyone would care whether Matt Fenstermaker reads or makes any comments on here. Someone that resorts to a "police are allowed to lie to get what they need" excuse mentality does not seem to be a person that has much integrity. Also seems like the type of person that would be retaliatory and use their position to do so. It seems reasonable for some to be concerned because the current administration and police department does not seem to foster an objective environment. Look at how the past clerk-treasurer was able to make a threatening call with no consequences and then allowed to be the acting fiscal officer without having the proper insurance as required by the contract.
ReplyDeleteMatt spoke of courage in his post. I just wanted to see if he had the courage to answer who is lying? Him or her? I guess we will see if he has the courage to answer or hide behind someones skirt.
ReplyDeleteI am actually through making commments on here. It is quite clear that the people who I am trying to justify any of my actions to already have their minds made up about me because of rumors and false accusations made by former disgruntled officers, certain officer's wives and citizens who think they know more than they do. I do have, just like the rest of you, the freedom of speech. But I won't stoop to the juvenile levels most of you on here are at and resort to name-calling. It probably never really occurred to anyone that if they think I did anything wrong, maybe they should bring formal charges against me with the Attorney General, BCI or some other agency who has the authority to investigate me as well. I would be more than happy to see how that complaint flies in court. I stand behind my actions, my training, my orders and my record.
ReplyDeleteWhere was Jason's right to free speech, Matt? I believe that's another reason why we are all here on this site questioning your integrity. Jason had the COURAGE and common sense to speak up and ask questions when he felt something wasn't right. Once again, no one is saying you broke the law. I (we) am saying that you are on the wrong side of right and wrong, that your moral compass is broken. Had Jason broken the law or been accused of a hideous crime, then you would be a hero in my mind. But he didn't, he exercised his right to free speech and stood up for what he believed in. Write that down in your diary and sleep on it.
ReplyDeleteMike...tell me. Where does your 'moral compass' fall on orders that are given to you by a Chief of Police to conduct an investigation? Would you choose friendship over your job? I doubt you honestly would. I was put into that position, and I believe that what I did was in the best interest of my career. Not only follow those orders, but to conduct that investigation in the manner in which I was taught. It was a difficult thing to do. Many other veteran law enforcement officers, and regular people I know see that fact and have told me what I did was professional and WITH integrity. That's right, I did choose my career over friendship and I will not apologize for it. That IS the definition of integrity. You're judgment is clouded by the fact that you're defending your brother, which puts you into a biased position. Granted I did lose many friends, and that is unfortunate. But losing those 'so called' friends is the price of having integrity and ethics in this job.
ReplyDeleteOf course you have to follow orders from your chief. But if I remember correctly, you were ordered to complete an investigation. Here is the million dollar question...did she order you to lie and secretly record conversations? I believe the answer is no. Which means YOU chose to use that tactic. You still could have done a very thourough investigation, kept your chief happy, got you promotion and saved your career, without compromising your integrity.
ReplyDeleteI may be a little biased because Jason is my brother. But I also have a unique perspective that others do not have. Because I don't live in or work for Minerva Park, I am on the outside looking in. I know you as a person and have worked with you as a police officer. And I have nearly fifteen years of solid experience in this business. I know what you did to Jason after his accident. I have my opinion of you, Matt but I'm going to keep it to myself. I may have to work with you and your chief someday and I want to remain professional. But know that I (and many others) will never be able to trust you again.
And as for those former officers you keep refering to, they were some of the best street cops that I have ever worked with. They have their own perspectives and they have the right to be heard.
Matt it was obvious that you were looking out for yourself, no one would debate that. You didn't lose a bunch of friends, you chose to defriend everyone else. There are ways to be a supervisor/chief/director etc and remain professional. When you're fired one day, and then "on leave" the next day, it's obvious someone screwed up. Jason looked out for safety. It's part of your job to question policies/procedures. I know I"m just a "certain officer's wife" but we question things in my profession of nursing as well. This is also part of one's moral compass. When it regards to safety of self and others, you need to question things. As far as I'm concerned, you could learn quite a few things from my husband. However, you can't fix a broken compass! Vickie Gross
ReplyDeleteMatt who testified truthfully? You or Nuesse? A simply question. Why will you not answer it?
ReplyDeleteMatt look at what time you post this stuff either your up all night and day look at the times!Maybe your posting at the time you should be working! And please tell us who told the truth! YOUR DIRTY TIME FOR YOU TO GO !!!
ReplyDeleteanswer it MATT! answer it MATT! Where is your back bone?
ReplyDeleteLOL!!! For the person that thinks I am posting this stuff on my work time...you are hillarious!! I post on this train wreck of a blog during the times I am at home and trying to go to sleep at night. If you don't believe me, check my work schedule. Geez...some of the things you people on here say sounds like it belongs on a middle school schoolyard. Keep trying to make me look like a bad guy, I could really care less. Anyone with the common sense of a 12 year old can see that all this finger-pointing is placing the blame on the guy who was just doing his job.
ReplyDeleteDiversion from the question Matt. How tricky! Answer the question! Did you or her tell the truth?
ReplyDeleteMatt, answer the question !!! Be a big boy and answer the question ! You might be able to get out of middle school and move on to High school.
ReplyDeleteIf you dont like this blog why are you on it?
I tend to agree with the, why are you on this blog? Truth is,if you are so proud of your actions and your character why.are you so defensive? And why do you have to put down a blog someone has worked hard to create so people could voice their opinions? This is really how you want to represent yourself? As an officer of Minerva Park? You might want to watch your words and remain adult. Who's namecalling? And what exactly was your job?
ReplyDeleteMatt, come out from behind her skirt and answer the question. It is very simple, who told the truth?
ReplyDeleteStill waiting Matt.What's wrong. Why don't you wake up. She threw you under the bus to protect herself,just like she did in Sandusky Ohio, And you were dumb enough to fall for it. Ask yourself, are you in a better place in your life. From what I see when all of this crap started, you knew it wasn't right you should have gone to the FOP, with these concerns, you knew they could have helped you. You have said it time and again, you listened to the so-called Chief, knowing what she wanted you to do was wrong, and how yes you have the title of Lt., big deal, you have lost all of your self-being. You have said yourself that you can't sleep, sounds like guilt is playing a big part in your no sleep statement. Matt, we are all still waiting for an answer from you, who's lying?????????????? In one of your statements you said that you have alot of other law enforcement that have told you that what you did was the right thing to do, come on Matt, MP is the laughing stock of the city,the ones that I have talked to the the surrounding areas, and you are a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think about it, you can do a good job, do it the right way and still keep your job. So I'm really tired of hearing that one. You have screwed up so many peoples lives because of the choices you have made, and you are so proud of yourself, you are such a sorry piece of a man. We are all still waiting for you to cut the so called apron string and tell us the truth, who lied.
ReplyDeleteMy question would be, if you did such a great investigation of officer Gross, then why were all charges but 1 dropped? The 3 week suspension wasn't for the violation of order 1, it was for him speaking to another officer at a meeting. You really think that deserves a 3 week unpaid suspension? Really? 1 charge was given per the council and you think your investigation was soo great. Who trained you??? What were you taught in regards to evidence collection and chain of custody? Is it common practice to take recorded tapes that are to be used as evidence home with you instead of locking it up somewhere? Seems to me that one could alter things when they take it home with them. If you think that the rest of the police world doesn't see that officer Gross got the shaft, you need to get your eyes checked. And you might want to look into another profession if you think you're such a great officer. What do you have to show for yourself other than stripes that a liar gave to you???!!!
ReplyDeleteTo the person who keeps asking Matt who lied,he's probably not going to answer that. He still works for MP and you're asking him to admit he lied or call his chief a liar. I would like to think he has enough intelligence to plead the fifth and look out for himself on that one. Kind of an awkward position he's put himself in. Vickie gross.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it will just shut him up and he will go back in his hole or put his skirt back on!
ReplyDeleteOkay Matt, I will make it simple for you, Did you tell the truth when you testified about the secret taping? Show us some courage and speak up.
ReplyDeleteI have always told my kids tell the truth! If you can't tell the truth you have nothing. Matt please tell the truth for the people that live in the the park. The people that over the years have had your back and stud by the police dept. Tell the truth about the mayor also. You no right from wrong!!!
ReplyDeleteI was well warned ahead of time that by conducting internal investigations it would lead to people turning the tables to make me look like the bad guy. Calling me a liar, and accusing me of lying, is expected from people who can't understand the full circumstances. It's ok by me for you all to speak your minds. That's your absolute right, just as it is mine. A certain someone tried to get me into trouble for posting on here a few days back, and he learned that I have the same rights for free speech under the Constitution as everyone else. But unlike many people on here, who I would otherwise consider cowards for hiding behind the "Anonymous" header, I will be more than happy to say my piece with my name showing. Now, although many people may think differently or have a bad impression of me, I am a very ethical officer. I can say that I will have to ultimately one day answer to God for my actions. For that I am proud to say I did my job to the best of my ability and training! I never lied about anything when I testified under oath. My 'moral compass', as some people call it, is much better than some on here who cannot differentiate the difference. There is no difference between a cop who will be willing to lie for another cop, or one who will be willing to commit a crime. It is my impression that those cops who think I should have covered up something or refused to follow orders in investigating, shame on you for thinking I would ever do such a thing! I believe in my heart that I made the right choices and I will never apologize for it. I will never be ashamed of doing it, or regret doing it. Say what you will about me, but ultimately I am a proud man for what I did for doing my job!
ReplyDeleteSo Jason got 3 weeks unpaid suspension for speaking to another officer at a DUI task force meeting. You think you're immune and apparently its ok for you to speak negatively to other officers,while in uniform,and being paid to attend a training session in pataskula? I just find it interesting he was disciplined and nothing happened to you. Glad you're proud Matt. Keep trying to convince yourself you did the right thing. You never did have anything to sat about your great investigation that only one charge of 9 was supported by your village council......let me help you with your math there. YOU FAILED!!!! What are you going to be spouting about when this is overturned? Then all your hard lies will have been for nothing.....except those useless stripes. And there wasn't anything to cover up bc Jason didn't do anything wrong!!!! Who lied for him? Who coveted anything? You didn't discover anything in your investigation....
ReplyDeleteAnd really Matt,what do u have to show for your career? What have u done that is so great? You work for a dept with 3 full time officers total. I think u might want a reality check here bc someone is awfully full of themselves. You have done nothing but put everyone else down. You're not alone bc u did an internal investigation. You're alone bc you're overconfident and think you're better than everyone. Why don't u put actions where your words are!!! Walk the walk bc all we hear is you mouthing off with nothing to show for your actions.
ReplyDeleteMatt, thank you for answering my question. I will give your credit for answering and I believe that you did not lie. But I also do believe that your chief did lie and that is not the first, second or god knows how many times she has lied. How can you be lead by such an unethical individual? And that is why people do not give their name, because she will attack. I hope that she does not destroy you, as she has so many others. Good Luck.
ReplyDeleteI believe u are untrained or mistaken. Chain of custody.......u don't take evidence home w you,plain and simple.
ReplyDeletenothing more to say, guess we'll let the courts decide who's lying and who is not
ReplyDeleteLooks like the bitches and steam is running out....or maybe everyone realized that complaining on a blog doesn't do anything. ha ha
ReplyDeleteLike I said above, lets see how the courts handle all of this. Matt, not very nice language coming from the Lt. of the police department.
ReplyDeleteI was just reading all of this and I am pretty familiar with the case and everyone involved. Matt, you said in a post above that, "There is no difference between a cop who will be willing to lie for another cop, or one who will be willing to commit a crime." Jason was never accused of committing any crimes. This was an administrative case for violating a general order written by the mayor. In that general order, there was a stipulation for a life threatening situation and judging by the cruiser video, most people would agree that this qualified.
ReplyDeleteThis was nothing more than a personal grudge against Officer Gross and you went above and beyond, using every tactic you would use if you were trying to catch a violent felon, to get Jason fired because that's what the mayor and Nuesse would have wanted. You thought that it would make you look good and this has all backfired. You've always been a good guy and a good cop. You're trying to protect and further your career and you're putting those goals above standing up for an officer who you admit is one of the best officers you have ever worked with. It's just a shame that things have spiraled this far out of control in Minerva Park, which truly was a good police department back when Bobbie Hillard was Chief. I wish everyone the best in this situation, but I honestly think that Officer Gross has been singled out unfairly and I hope he receives a large financial award in civil court because of what has been done to him.
I am happy I left and moved on to a bigger department that does not have any internal issues and where it is fun to go to work every day with a great group of officers. I hope things can get turned around in Minerva Park so everyone can do their jobs without fear of reprisal.
Channel 6 ABC aired a dash cam video on the news Friday from a police pursuit by Officer Jason Gross of a drunk driver on Cleveland Avenue. The driver crashed their car into a tree and was arrested.
DeleteOne might wonder if this going to end up leading to another suspension of Gross for another alleged violation of that general order, and lead to more confusion and conflict of what an officer is to do. It seems he cannot have dialogue with officers of other areas concerning such a dilemma without the mayor, Nuesse, and some council members feeling he is violating some policy. Or will this cruiser video and circumstances be more clear to the mayor and Nuesse that maybe he was trying to do what an officer being responsible should attempt to do?
Nope. No question, he's getting fired again!! LOL!!!
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